Trackday question RE: Brakes and Mission Raceway

Hey guys,

For those of you who run the Mission road course a lot, how hard is it on brakes?

Who runs stock brakes?

What pads?

How hard do you go at it (ie how many laps at maximum attack can you do before things start to fade)?

I did my first trackday last week. Being a novice i took it easy. One of the things I was worried about was fade and I was a really chicken when it came to hammering the brakes. I topped out at 160 on the front straight and just lifted way early (before the brake markers). I was 80% on the brakes for the first corner. I didn't get any fade but my rotors were pretty blue by then end of the session. I'm wondering what others experience?

Jeff
UBCSCC Past Treasurer 01-02?, UBCSCC Past President 98-00
'00 Audi S4 BiTurbo - SM
'98 VW GTi VR6 D/SS - Sold
'86 Porsche 951- Sold
'83 VW GTi "Uber Bunny" - F/SP - Sold
'84 VW Jetta GLi - D/SP - Sold

Comments

  • edited November -1
    its very hard on brakes.
    I've upgraded the brakes on my Focus to the 12" SVT brakes,
    I use Halk HPS pads, but they are barely sufficient. (but they are my street/auto-x pads). I also use some brake ducting to avoid having to upgrade pads.
    If i were more serious about track days, i would definately upgrade alot more (better ducting, higher temp pads)
    Norman Hayton -
    2014 Mustang GT in F Street
    1999 BMW 323i for Rallycross
    2011 FSP Canadian National Champion
    2017 FS Canadian National Champion
  • edited November -1
    Why worry so much about fade? When it happens, you know you are being too hard on the brakes, ease off and they will come back. As part of your track "kit" you should be bringing extra fluid and tools to be able to flush your fluid at the track. Hawk HPS and HP+ are both pretty much useless at Mission.

    Grab yourself a set of Hawk DTC60 (or better) and swap them in at the track. You will be much happier. Since I started using the DTC60 at few years ago, brake temps went down, they are not corrosive at all like the Hawk Blues used to be, and surprisingly with proper brake in they are wearing really well. My $0.02.
  • edited November -1
    solorex wrote:
    Why worry so much about fade? When it happens, you know you are being too hard on the brakes, ease off and they will come back. /quote]

    I once did a track day in Ontario, at Toronto Motorsports Park. Similar sharp corner at the end of the straight. There was a concrete wall at the end of the straight with minimal run off. Brake fade is friggin scary because imagine doing 160 down the straight at mission, going for the pedal and finding a hard pedal. I didn't boil the fluid, but just no brakes (like minimal friction)!!! I nearly crapped myself that corner. I made it, but jezus it was awful. There was little warning. It wasn't like the pedal gradually got harder. It was just--- no brakes!

    I was running HP+ and I know they're not the best for track days. I think I will try a dedicated track compound next track day, and get my brake cooling organized.

    However,my question still stands, how many laps at max attack (or nearly) before you guys have to back off?

    Jeff
    UBCSCC Past Treasurer 01-02?, UBCSCC Past President 98-00
    '00 Audi S4 BiTurbo - SM
    '98 VW GTi VR6 D/SS - Sold
    '86 Porsche 951- Sold
    '83 VW GTi "Uber Bunny" - F/SP - Sold
    '84 VW Jetta GLi - D/SP - Sold
  • edited November -1
    Wow, I have never had that happen in my car, mine doesn't ever get a hard pedal, as things get too hot the pedal gets mushy...

    Anyways, when I have run HP+ at Mission I could usually get 2-3 hot laps in before the brakes start getting really hot. But this is so car-specific and how good your braking system is and maintained. I run stock calipers, brembo blanks, stainless lines and DOT4 fluid. But this is in a CRX.

    Since going to DTC60 I can be hard the whole time and not build the heat or start to get fade like I did with the HP+.
  • edited November -1
    One strategy I adopt for Mission is, I alternate between hot and cruising laps. I typically start off aiming for 2 hot laps + 1 cruising lap, and adjust things according various conditions at the time (traffic, pad / fluid / tire conditions, my own stamina, etc). I find this strategy to be extremely effective in prolonging both the car and my own endurance at the track. In my cars (both low powered Miata and Civic), I can expect at least 15+ min's worth of track time before brake fade starts to show up in a typical (~20C?) June track day. And the brake fade doesn't really worsen enough to become a problem even by the end of a 20 - 25 min session. Most importantly, I don't tire myself out from trying to focus all 20 minutes long. It makes for a huge difference, especially as the day goes on.

    For me, I don't consider track days to be the same as autox -- it is not a race, and I do not drive at 103%. I still want to drive well and I will push the car, but ultimately, I am just there to have fun. The hot+cruising lap strategy can prolong the amount of time when I am having fun, and it reduces the chance of me blowing / breaking something on the car, so I am all for it.
  • edited November -1
    Cool. This is what I wanted to know. I was in the novice group last week and i was at 80% the whole time. Which is fun, but I wanted to go 95% for at least a couple laps. I wanted to know if you guys are going flat the whole time or alternating or what.

    Some guys look like they're going flat out most of the time!

    I suppose this is a change. In Auto-x I am doing 95-100% every run. But in auto-x I don't feel like I am going to wipe myself out if I mess up.

    Jeff
    UBCSCC Past Treasurer 01-02?, UBCSCC Past President 98-00
    '00 Audi S4 BiTurbo - SM
    '98 VW GTi VR6 D/SS - Sold
    '86 Porsche 951- Sold
    '83 VW GTi "Uber Bunny" - F/SP - Sold
    '84 VW Jetta GLi - D/SP - Sold
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